Apologies for starting another discussion on politics to fill the space created by the international break!
We voted Brexit Not based on first past the post but one man one vote. As a result the parties were split across the middle. Why now negotatiting and voting on the Brexit deal and what’s good or bad for UK is done by Party?? No wonder why there’s infighting and people like corbyn and Boris are more interested in their personal gain. Brexit is way way more important than politics and parties!!! It will impact, like a war, our lives for many generations to come! Now we are leaving (not what I’d wanted) we should treat this like a WAR and put party and personal interest aside! It’s ridiculous now DUP effectively has the final vote in the deal!! It’s a joke!
Replies
Sry simple 27 countries in the EU only 3 countries keeping there head above water why would you stay?
We voted out admittedly it's more complicated than 1st thought both sides lied Cameron started it told us how much he loved his country then resigned now he's making a great living making speeches.
Stop remoaning let's get out!!
posted by Mike (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 11:47 AM
Well said Mike.
posted by Brain Jarvis (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 11:55 AM
mike ,, i couldnt av put it better ,, and then fill in that f,in tunnel
posted by moreline (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 12:32 PM
Thumbs up Mike, with you 100%.
posted by Mortlake (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 1:17 PM
Like most of you I am nearer the end than the beginning
For anyone up to their 30’s even 40’s this is the biggest potential disaster to affect their future in living memory
posted by Keetch54 - Sunday 14th October 2018, 3:39 PM
When you’ve been married for 40 years and have 27 children, dont think its simple just to ‘get out’ , unless you are perfectly happy to give up all access to the children . We seem to want full access plus the odd conjugal visit. Oddly enough, life isn’t quite like that .This will be the first deal in history to purposely shrink our economy and restrict our freedom of access overseas. Sounds a bit like punching ourselves in the face, being preferable to a tickle by Johnny Foreigner?
posted by Rm (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 3:43 PM
MIKE AND BRAIN, odds on your both over 65 with bugger all to lose.
posted by HARRY LONGBALL (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 5:03 PM
Likely, but not necessarily so, Harry L. It’s a sad fact that the very poorest, ill educated and most likely to suffer are the very same as those who voted for Brexit. Those people blame foreigners for their own failings...not surprising, I suppose, after so much rubbish over the years being spouted both by politicians and the media .
posted by Rm (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 5:13 PM
....by the way, I am over 65
posted by Rm (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 5:14 PM
I dont think the Wetherspoons brigade with their mortgages paid, index linked pensions ongoing, and still romancing about England returning to its green field country pub personae really give a toss about anybody with their life in front of them
posted by Keetch54 - Sunday 14th October 2018, 5:20 PM
P.s. I am nearly 65.....
posted by Keetch54 - Sunday 14th October 2018, 5:21 PM
Clearly you havent been in the same Wetherspoons as me!!! I only ever see overweight rascists ( think Chelsea/West Ham fans) who believe we still have an Empire, are anti Gay marriage and think that Grayson Perry is a fat tranny who doesn’t know his pots from his pans
posted by Rm (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 5:26 PM
Just over 50 actually everyone entitled to their own opinion more importantly I think we’ll avoid the drop!!
posted by Mike (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 7:58 PM
My point is not whether we leave or not. I didn't want to leave but decision made and that's it. My point is why party politics come into the negotiation and vote. This is bigger than politics. It's like a WAR. Once we are in - we have to put aside party politics and do what is right for the country and fight together. The way is going we will end up with 25% of what people want. That is, only 52% wanted to leave, with party politics, only half of them will get what they want - that is 26%!!
posted by John (Guest) - Sunday 14th October 2018, 8:14 PM
I’m nearer 80 than 70 and I have children for whom I want a good future. My wife worked for 5+ years in Luxembourg for the EIB, in a senior capacity. We both voted enthusiastically to leave. She was tasked with the job of re- structuring the organisation. They know they’ve got problems but self - interest made it an impossible brief. She tried for many years, to no avail. The EU and it’s various parts is an un- democratic, corrupt and inefficient, self interested gravy train, run by self interested civil servants.....in our opinion. I fully understand why people with perhaps less insight into the workings of this organisation would worry very much with regards to what the future holds for our country. It will not be easy, however I firmly believe we can thrive, after a time, get our country back and our self respect and not continue to be dictated to by these unelected bureaucrats. It wasn’t for us, like many others, a question of immigration, rather the right to deport Abdul Hamza and his ilk when OUR courts decide and not be overruled by the European Courts, in other words to be in control of our own country and our own destiny.
posted by Mortlake (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 8:21 AM
and if we need labour be it a fruitpicker or doctor , they will be assesed , visa led immagration ,,,, leave granny and the kids at home insted of overloading our carehomes schools and nationel health ,,, remember 2 polish adults i kid equals a grand a month tax credits , and there rent and rates paid ,,, do we really need that
posted by eric,m (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 9:54 AM
Good letter Mortlake, I voted to leave ( and would so again) nothing to do with being a racist just wanted a sensible plan for controlling the countless millions who flock to our shores every year, surely even the dimmest of politicians - and we have more than enough of them should be able to recognise that fact. And simple things such as being told that we can't dredge our rivers which if allowed would possibly shorten the odds of people's homes being flooded - because it isn't good for the environment still rankle a bit,
posted by Harry (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 12:40 PM
What's that shining light in the sky,?why it's a Corbyn, soon to be elected as a leader of our great country and all problems will be sorted so fear not folks and by the way we're going to win the Premier League this season !
posted by John (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 12:50 PM
hahaha! Nice one Mike - I especially like the line of your message that says 'it's more complicated than 1st thought.' I suppose if you belived what was initially said by the Brexit side of the debate then, it would NOW appear to be 'more complicated'. Let's face it; you were always told what now appears to be a pack of lies. After all; it was the Brexiteers who said that 'The free trade agreement would be the easiest deal in human history.' It was the Brexiteers who said; 'Getting out of the EU will be quick and easy and that the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.' It was the Brexiteers who said that 'Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee' and although I could go on; it was the brexiters who said that; 'Within minutes of a vote for brexit, CEO's would be knocking down the German Chancellors door demanding access to the british market'. Since then we have Jaguar Land Rover move to a 3 day working week, there has been a drop in value of our currency; there has been a drop in value of our homes across the country, we have companies already moving operations to main land europe and others exploring the notion of doing so which, what ever way you cut it will impact business negatively. Essentially; the UK is going to be worse off post Brexit than before and it is utter lunacy to push this through. Cheering Brexit (as it currently stands today) and requesting to 'fill in the f-ing tunnel' and other such comments is like watching some one defecate in their own hands and then start applauding a car crash. Each to their own I suppose. Everyone's entitled to an opinion!
posted by OddBod! (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 1:05 PM
So money is the criteria? Not sovereignty, not self determination, not democratic process, not self government, not due process. I’d rather be a little poorer and be master of my own destiny and believe that we will be more successful trading with the wider world and outside the EU ‘s red tape straight jacket and fiscal exploitation. But hey, as you say everyone is entitled to their opinion. The vote said, let’s leave and looks like that’s exactly what we’re doing.
posted by Duh (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 1:49 PM
Duh is a great name for you. What you really mean is that you’d prefer others to be a little poorer, so long as you can get out of the EU. Well, my clever friend, please tell me who’s going to wipe your bottom when you go to hospital? Who’s going to clean your streets, pick your fruit and clean your house? And another thing, who decides what happens in the WTO ? That’s right, you havent a clue, as its decided by. Bureaucrats from goodness knows where, that you’ve never heard of...we will simply swap one lot for another,except this time without any say, choice or hope. Get real. If you want to feel a bit more enlightened, drop the Express and the Telegraph and read the FT, unless, of course, you’ve had enough of experts
posted by Rm (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 3:11 PM
Sorry but Staying in the EU so we can continue to exploit cheap labor to do the work we dont want to do is disgusting. We wouldn't need to bring in people to carry out social service jobs if we paid people a decent wage and not able to keep the salaries low by continually bringing in people from poorer countries in the EU. It is short term anyway as once there economies improve and there standard of living increases they wont come here.The Irish used to come in droves a generation ago , Now more people are going in the opposite direction in the last few years.
posted by Tezza - Monday 15th October 2018, 4:26 PM
Rm, made it as far as your second sentence. Then decided that you were a complete imbecile. Read Mortlake’s post as he appears to have some insight into the workings of the EU, whilst you obviously know very little. Just like to add that Tezza is absolutely correct, but maybe Rm would prefer to go back to relying on a modern day slave trade. Not sure exploitation is the way forward.
posted by Duh (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 5:21 PM
Eloquently put Tezza and accurate too:) Rm....tut,tut.
posted by Mortlake (Guest) - Monday 15th October 2018, 5:25 PM
Departing Europe is the biggest single Foreign Policy blunder any British Government has orchestrated since Suez - it is a vote to be poorer. Pick any timeline you want over the next 10-15 years and we will see where Britain stands in comparison to its European neighbours. Gone are European regional and social funds which have propped up Northern Ireland (the UK government won't be able to invest at comparable levels and may well lead to a resurgence of the 'troubles'); gone is the support for other poorer parts of the UK (most of whom voted to leave!); gone are R+D funds which support British Universities; gone is the Erasmus funding which has allowed so many British students to study abroad; gone is our international influence as France moves into the Foreign Policy space we have vacated; gone is the supply of cheap labour for the national health service (where is the 350m we were promised?) The lies perpetuated by the Brexit campaign were the most shameful I have ever witnessed in British politics. A campaign deviously orchestrated and funded by a group of people - politicians and hedge fund managers - who are rich in their own right; who have financial interests outside Europe and/or seek a deregulated labour market and low benefit economy. Don't worry they will make plenty of money at our expense. This, coupled with Britain's appalling track record of non-commitment to Europe over the last 40 years, has orchestrated a departure which will contribute to our steady decline and may well lead to the break up of the UK as Scotland seeks independence. And all of this is for what? The British economy will be less attractive for foreign investment and our trading interests will be less protected. Food standards will decline and food will become more expensive. And all this fiction about Britain becoming this great global trading hub - look at the size of our market! Sure we can have trade deals with the US for chlorinated chicken or have the Chinese build our nuclear power stations - such arrangements will only be signed if it suits them - do we really think we can compete with these giants? As we become a more inward looking and xenophobic society , there are only losers in all of this on both sides of the channel - sad days indeed!
posted by FFC forever (Guest) - Wednesday 17th October 2018, 9:50 AM
move 2 europe if its so good , they will take you with open arms ,,, oh but make sure you got a few bob cause there aint no freebies like ere , most of our problems are they love our benifits so much , it sure is not for love or respect or multiculterlism ,,, ,england run by germans , how will you face your ancestors when you meet them , bit poorer maybe , but prouder DEFINITELY
posted by england fan (Guest) - Wednesday 17th October 2018, 1:57 PM
Bit of a paranoid rant FFC. Unlike you, many don’t want to be dictated to by unelected civil servants in the EU. Understand your arguement but you must understand Brexiteers position. That is, we would rather be masters of our own destiny, richer or poorer. Only time will tell. The majority voted to leave, live with it, or are you another one who fails to grasp the principles of Democracy and dreams of a second referendum? It ain’t going to happen mate. Everyone should respect the result of the referendum, like it or not, and get on working for the common good, rather than bellyaching all the time.
posted by Mortlake (Guest) - Wednesday 17th October 2018, 8:57 PM
We were masters of our own destiny in Europe - we had the national veto and used it extensively. We had the best membership deal in town: - a massive rebate; opt outs; derogations; - eurobond trading even through we do not have the Euro in the UK and still not enough.
The tragedy is that we will not be masters of our own destiny when we leave - in fact quite the contrary. Bigger nations will bully us into inferior trade Deals. If we trade with the EU (a no brainer since this is our biggest trading partner by distance = about 25% of GDP)we will have to accept regulations imposed upon us by Brussels with no say in the way these are set. How smart is that? Far from regaining our sovereignty - we have given it away! Two further thoughts. The European single market of goods and services was created by Margaret Thatcher who understood that we had to remain in Europe to influence the development of that market. We have now given that away. And, by the way, which was the first nation to sign up to the free movement of people - you guessed it: the UK (Blair!).
I am not a remoaner - I am patriot - these are desperately serious issues and this will have an enormous and detrimental impact on the UK and its future.
Do we want to turn our back on the greatest peace-building project in history? For what? a return to Europe of separate nation states?20th C history may have something to say about that
posted by FFCtheonly14me (Guest) - Thursday 18th October 2018, 2:30 PM
FFC- Dont waste your time
All summed up today by one Michael Caine on Radio 4 this morning:
“ I would rather be poor outside the EU , and not rich inside it”
With that he pissed off back to Miami where he is now resident apparently.
Typical comment from the imperialist past deluded who are not in all honesty going to be around to savour the damage they have dealt to future generations who were not in a position to state their case.
65 million people stood alone on their island pissing in the wind .
posted by Keetch54 - Thursday 18th October 2018, 2:44 PM
@ffc.... now there's an eloquent response depicting the reality of the situation. Brexit is based on emotions. The Remain narrative is based on fact(s)!! Yet, people believe that having a blue passport (Which by the way will be made by a French company) and isolating ourselves represents progress. How on earth did it come to this?
posted by Oddbod! (Guest) - Thursday 18th October 2018, 5:37 PM